It took me literally decades to realize this—the result of having a father who was a terrific bebop saxophonist but had no use for Ornette or post-Love-Supreme Coltrane. I'll never be a great bebopper. So the f*** what?
Jazz is one of the few spaces left where your strengths and interests aren’t something you hide. They’re the starting point. There aren’t many places that truly invite you to be yourself.
He played in the 1:00 O’CLock at North Texas in the early 70s in the band with Lou Marini, Tom Malone, Dean Parks, et al. He also attended Berlkee in the late ‘50s, studying with Joe Viola. He was a monster bebop player, but had no use for the outre stuff.
He was in a rock band called Montage that had a Top 40 hit called "Natural Inclination" back in the early 70s. He sang on it, but didn't play. He was an excellent vocalist. As far as his playing, there's some stuff on Soundcloud he did late in his life, mostly with backing tracks. He still sounds good, but nowhere near what he was in his prime.
Did your dad know Ric Wolkins? He played lead trumpet in the 1:00 clock in 1971-72 (?). His son Ben is an excellent and very creative trumpet player. Very different from his dad as a player. There might be some similar generational struggles there. On a personal note, I can definitely relate to your earlier comment that it took decades to realize/remember that your own voice/strengths/interests were something to celebrate. I appreciate this.
My thinking was always that as opposed to acting, where one is trying to understand and absorb the true motivations and actions of a character who is not themselves, this could be similar to a symphonic musician, absorbing and reflecting the emotional content of a piece of music from a different culture written more than a century or two ago, jazz musicians are in a space where they are trying to discover and express themselves.
On the other hand, Joan Didion claimed her success as a journalist was due to the fact that when interviewing people she seemed so neurotically insecure and uncomfortable that the people she was interviewing opened up in a way they might not have if she was self-confident.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong, but it actually sounds like Joan’s situation might be making the same point I was trying to make. From the way you describe it, being a little neurotic, insecure, and visibly uncomfortable seemed to be her most natural mode—the place she could go without much effort. And interestingly, that may have worked in her favor more than trying to discipline herself into projecting a kind of polished confidence that didn’t really belong to her.
So I’m not entirely sure if you were agreeing or pushing back, but the example you mention seems to illustrate the idea rather well.
This is good advice. I remember some older musician (I unfortunately can't remember which!) telling a group of us then-youngsters that there were two things we needed to work on—stuff we CAN'T do well, because we'd never learn to do it if we didn't focus on it; and stuff we CAN do well, because it can become the core of what would turn into our own personal sound. One of the things I really respect about your own journey is the fact that, coming from being successful in the straightahead world early, I'm sure your own internalized bullshit meter was blaring as you started exploring all these new sounds, but you trusted yourself and did it anyway, which is inspiring!
I love the thesis, but maybe the Ornette and CT examples need tweaking -- I'm under the impression that Ornette spent a lot of time trying to absorb Charlie Parker as a kid, just as Rollins (one year older) and Coltrane (four years older) were, and CT was engaged with people like Bud Powell, Brubeck, Shearing (early on). and got into Horace Silver (who I think was just one year younger than CT) when he was getting it together.
Nice to hear from you. I did not mean to insinuate that Ornette and CT tried to play like these players and eventually settled into their own thing. I chose Coltrane, Sonny, Wynton, and Bill simply as examples of players many tried to emulate. Instead, Ornette and CT carved their own distinct paths. I was speaking more metaphorically than referring to a direct musical lineage.
We've all heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect and seen far too much of it in politics in recent years- the tendency for people who don't know anything about a topic to overestimate their abilities.
The inverse of that discussed by Dunning and Kruger themselves is that people who really are skilled or knowledgeable tend to underestimate their abilities because they don't realize that what seems second nature to them isn't as simple to others.
This makes sense of many levels. My wife and I use to joke that our son—unlike either of us—was a “kinesthetic genius” because he seemed so naturally in his body and so able to master physical tasks and challenges.
Thanks for asking. He is driving a delivery truck as he finishes an AB degree. Plays a lot of pool (very good). Weightlifting as therapy. so it’s still there. Finding his way
It took me literally decades to realize this—the result of having a father who was a terrific bebop saxophonist but had no use for Ornette or post-Love-Supreme Coltrane. I'll never be a great bebopper. So the f*** what?
Jazz is one of the few spaces left where your strengths and interests aren’t something you hide. They’re the starting point. There aren’t many places that truly invite you to be yourself.
And who was your father? I feel like I should know this.
He played in the 1:00 O’CLock at North Texas in the early 70s in the band with Lou Marini, Tom Malone, Dean Parks, et al. He also attended Berlkee in the late ‘50s, studying with Joe Viola. He was a monster bebop player, but had no use for the outre stuff.
Very cool. Any recordings?
He was in a rock band called Montage that had a Top 40 hit called "Natural Inclination" back in the early 70s. He sang on it, but didn't play. He was an excellent vocalist. As far as his playing, there's some stuff on Soundcloud he did late in his life, mostly with backing tracks. He still sounds good, but nowhere near what he was in his prime.
I remember that song from my childhood! https://youtu.be/j4i7yoQioLU?si=O_Ffa_O1V6DT1rbo
Was he at North Texas during Ashley Alexander's tenure? Ashley was one of our favorite jazz clinicians in SoCal in the 80s.
Yes he was.
Did your dad know Ric Wolkins? He played lead trumpet in the 1:00 clock in 1971-72 (?). His son Ben is an excellent and very creative trumpet player. Very different from his dad as a player. There might be some similar generational struggles there. On a personal note, I can definitely relate to your earlier comment that it took decades to realize/remember that your own voice/strengths/interests were something to celebrate. I appreciate this.
I’ll have to check out Ben. We probably have things in common.
He probably did. Unfortunately, he's no longer around to ask.
My thinking was always that as opposed to acting, where one is trying to understand and absorb the true motivations and actions of a character who is not themselves, this could be similar to a symphonic musician, absorbing and reflecting the emotional content of a piece of music from a different culture written more than a century or two ago, jazz musicians are in a space where they are trying to discover and express themselves.
It takes a lot of guts to trust the "easy" stuff, but as you pointed out with Pollock and Coleman, that’s usually where the actual magic is hidden.
It’s because of our distrust of the “easy” stuff that we end up backing ourselves into musical corners.
On the other hand, Joan Didion claimed her success as a journalist was due to the fact that when interviewing people she seemed so neurotically insecure and uncomfortable that the people she was interviewing opened up in a way they might not have if she was self-confident.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong, but it actually sounds like Joan’s situation might be making the same point I was trying to make. From the way you describe it, being a little neurotic, insecure, and visibly uncomfortable seemed to be her most natural mode—the place she could go without much effort. And interestingly, that may have worked in her favor more than trying to discipline herself into projecting a kind of polished confidence that didn’t really belong to her.
So I’m not entirely sure if you were agreeing or pushing back, but the example you mention seems to illustrate the idea rather well.
From that perspective you may be right, though my point was that interviewing was an uncomfortable task for her yet she persevered.
This is good advice. I remember some older musician (I unfortunately can't remember which!) telling a group of us then-youngsters that there were two things we needed to work on—stuff we CAN'T do well, because we'd never learn to do it if we didn't focus on it; and stuff we CAN do well, because it can become the core of what would turn into our own personal sound. One of the things I really respect about your own journey is the fact that, coming from being successful in the straightahead world early, I'm sure your own internalized bullshit meter was blaring as you started exploring all these new sounds, but you trusted yourself and did it anyway, which is inspiring!
I love the framing of this. Thanks for sharing.
I love the thesis, but maybe the Ornette and CT examples need tweaking -- I'm under the impression that Ornette spent a lot of time trying to absorb Charlie Parker as a kid, just as Rollins (one year older) and Coltrane (four years older) were, and CT was engaged with people like Bud Powell, Brubeck, Shearing (early on). and got into Horace Silver (who I think was just one year younger than CT) when he was getting it together.
I made the tweak. Definitely flows a lot better, and hurdles over a possible musical lineage debate. THANKS!
Nice to hear from you. I did not mean to insinuate that Ornette and CT tried to play like these players and eventually settled into their own thing. I chose Coltrane, Sonny, Wynton, and Bill simply as examples of players many tried to emulate. Instead, Ornette and CT carved their own distinct paths. I was speaking more metaphorically than referring to a direct musical lineage.
We've all heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect and seen far too much of it in politics in recent years- the tendency for people who don't know anything about a topic to overestimate their abilities.
The inverse of that discussed by Dunning and Kruger themselves is that people who really are skilled or knowledgeable tend to underestimate their abilities because they don't realize that what seems second nature to them isn't as simple to others.
This is so true. It's humility taken a step further.
I wouldn’t even call it humility. It’s not even understanding that others can’t do what comes to you easily.
I get what you're saying.
This makes sense of many levels. My wife and I use to joke that our son—unlike either of us—was a “kinesthetic genius” because he seemed so naturally in his body and so able to master physical tasks and challenges.
That’s a very interesting observation. And I love that framing: kinesthetic genius. Did he gravitate towards something that leans into that?
Thanks for asking. He is driving a delivery truck as he finishes an AB degree. Plays a lot of pool (very good). Weightlifting as therapy. so it’s still there. Finding his way
Very cool! Pool used to be an obsession of mine. If I ever run into him, we'll have to play a few rounds of 8-ball.
He’d be game We also play a lot of disc golf. Good father/son time.
Delightful